habiticafandomcom-20200222-history
Talk:Sample Tags
Keep the Introduction Short A previous version of the page had a slightly longer introduction. Lemoness did some user testing which indicated that a long introduction was unhelpful in the Sample Habits page (and so would also be unhelpful here). One person stared at the page, said "oh I thought it would have a list of sample habits" and closed it without scrolling down to find the lists. So, we should keep the introduction short and to the point. LadyAlys (talk) 04:48, September 5, 2015 (UTC) Project based tags Tempted to take out the section on project based tags, but I didn't. Seems like this would be more of a to-do with perhaps a checklist? LittleRabbit 18:50, January 25, 2014 (UTC) For large projects, a single To-Do with a checklist might not be enough. There might be several To-Dos for different aspects, a Daily to ensure you work on the project, Habits for extra work, etc. LadyAlys (talk) 04:48, September 5, 2015 (UTC) Survival Tags Starts off useful, ends up weird. Surely if you're having an "episode" the easiest thing to avoid being overwhelmed is just to rest in the inn? While having links to crisis orgs is nice (and HabitRPG probably does have its share of OCD sufferers), is the Sample Tags page really the best place for it? Nutter (talk) 21:54, February 6, 2014 (UTC) ---- I think it's good here (and definitely should be somewhere easy to find). This page is about ways of using tags to help you organise your life, and Survival Tags certainly fall into that category. The section was written by someone with a very good understanding of the issues faced by people with depressive illnesses - issues that other people (including me) don't really have that much of a feel for. I'd be cautious about making changes to this section. It could be very helpful for people who really need it. Also, resting in the inn isn't necessarily a good coping technique. When you're depressed or suffering from other mental health issues, even the simplest things can seem incredibly difficult. Getting out of bed and cleaning your teeth can be too hard, as strange as that may seem to people who don't have mental health issues. If you rest in the inn, all of HabitRPG's motivational features are removed, leaving you with little but your own willpower to make you do things, and willpower is exactly what you do NOT have when you're having an episode - you end up just staying in bed all day because there's nothing in your life that compels you to get up. It's much better to have a system already in place that lets you easily filter your tasks so you see only the ones that are important for your current situation - the survival tasks. These tasks are things that might be critical (feeding pets) or things that are simple (cleaning teeth), and by focussing on them you can ensure that you do at least do SOMETHING productive in your day. Tiny little wins like that can help alleviate the syptoms of a mental health issue, and give you one small stepping stone to use to work your way up to a better condition. I have a lot of respect for this Survival Tags section, even though I'm likely to never need it myself. I think it belongs here. LadyAlys (talk) 22:11, February 6, 2014 (UTC) I've suffered from depression - sometimes suicidal - for over 20 years. I'm not quibbling with the survival tags; it's a useful heads-up for anyone who needs it but might not have thought of setting up Habit like that. And as I said before, having links to crisis orgs makes sense, but if I was in a crisis situation I wouldn't necessarily think to look in the "sample tags" section of the wiki; it's not an obvious place. Would it be more accessible if there was a "crisis info" page, which could then be linked to this one? That might make it easier to reference from more places, or at least easier to find for those that need it - it could be linked to directly from the main site, for example - and could possibly be a repository for other support info (there must be relevant guilds) as well as the tag system? Incidentally, the usefulness of resting in the inn depends on how many dailies you have active; tags won't necessarily help with that. What would be good is a one-click "crisis mode" that would grey out dailies but leave everything else running - I may add that to Trello if someone else hasn't already. Nutter (talk) 01:08, February 7, 2014 (UTC) The Survival Tags section isn't intended to be found by someone already in a crisis situation. It's one method of setting up tags (presumably during a calmer period of your life) which can then be useful later in a crisis situation (and it could also be used in non-crisis situations if you were, for example, short on time and needed to see just the highest priority tasks). As such, I think it belongs here. This page is all about different ways of using tags for specific types of task management, and Survival Tags is one of those ways. LadyAlys (talk) 04:19, February 7, 2014 (UTC) No, survival tags do not just have to be used for a life-or-death situation - that alone would suggest a re-write, even if the tone wasn't way off. But the author of the current text is clearly intending that as their main purpose. I'm not convinced that isn't a straw man designed to give the author something to write about, but on the chance that there are people in crisis looking in the wiki for help, they deserve something rather less flippant. I'll do a draft re-write as soon as I get the time, probably this evening. Nutter (talk) 13:08, February 7, 2014 (UTC) "a straw man designed to give the author something to write about" - That's very much the opposite of what happened. The author wrote a short, but very helpful message in tavern chat with some simple ideas about survival tags. I suggested that she add that message to the wiki because I thought it was worth saving in a permanent location. She did so and expanded on the ideas, producing what is there now. She was writing from personal experience, describing a system that works for her when she needs coping techniques for mental health issues, and she had positive responses to her ideas in chat so I believe her methods are useful for others. I'm not sure what you mean by the tone being way off or the material being flippant because I don't read any of it as either of those things, but I do understand that you might see it differently. This is a wiki so of course you can change it as you like, but please be aware that while you might see that section as weird, others might see it as useful. In fact, because you see it as weird and think that resting in the inn would be a better strategy, it probably means that this particular technique isn't suitable for you, and so it is possible (although not certain!!) that you might not be the best editor for it. But change it as you wish; if you can make it more accessible to a wider audience while still being just as useful to the original audience, that would be an excellent thing. Please also be aware though that I or others might edit it again after you do, possibly to replace any material that you might have thought not worth keeping. If that happens, please don't see it as any sort of attack; it will just be the normal wiki editing process of a group of people trying to bring the article to a point of consensus. LadyAlys (talk) 13:31, February 7, 2014 (UTC) Message received and understood. No point me wasting my time if you've decided to revert the page in advance of seeing edits. Nutter (talk) 20:44, February 7, 2014 (UTC) No, that's definitely not what I was saying. I am actually interested to see if you can improve it so it suits your needs as well as other people's - as I said, that would be excellent - but I am also wanting to avoid having the section changed so much that its original purpose is no longer met. If you want to change it, do please do so, but please try to avoid making it no longer helpful to people who would like the original survival tags solution. I think my issue here is that you started by saying it was weird and that resting in the inn might be a better option (I know that is not the case for some people; for some, accomplishing a few, small, important things is much better for mental health than accomplishing nothing). There is of course nothing wrong with you not liking or agreeing with this section, but the fact that you don't possibly means that you shouldn't be making large edits to it - that might be best left for someone who has a gut-level understanding of the usefulness of this concept to themselves, as someone who doesn't have that level of understanding might not realise which are the important parts that need to be left in. That was one of the main points I was trying to say, and I am honestly sorry if it comes across as rude. My other main point was that this section should remain on the page: the page is for methods of organising tags, and this is one such method. If you want to edit it, do go ahead, just keep in mind that it might be edited again (but not completely reverted I would hope!) if it needs to have material added back in to retain its original purpose. LadyAlys (talk) 23:46, February 7, 2014 (UTC) Time Management Systems While I recognize the relevance of tag use to time management systems, the section here is very long and I think it overwhelms the article. # Is it necessary to have such long explanations for each time management system given here? I think a brief sentence, linking to the main article, might be more appropriate and overwhelm the page less. # Perhaps simply compressing the examples would help (that is, a horizontal list rather than a bulleted list) # Maybe a section for advanced/complex use of tags could go at the end of the page (imo this should include 'survival mode' as well) # At the very least, I suggest moving the emoji section higher up, as it's simpler and more relevant to universal/basic tag use. Input appreciated :) Arikaeli (talk) 09:13, May 17, 2017 (UTC) ::I think moving the emoji section up was a great idea! I'm glad you implemented that change. ::Hmm, it's completely possible that I'm misunderstanding, but I don't feel like each time management system has a very long explanation. It seems like the bulk of the Time Management Systems sub-sections consist of tag examples. I think bulleted lists are easier to read than horizontal lists, so I'd lean towards keeping them as is for ease of comprehension. --Sonnet73 (talk) 00:17, May 18, 2017 (UTC)